nasa has invested 1.5 million for an online game. another one, 325,000 for a federal grant to build a robo squirrel which is designed to answer the question of what happens when a snake is confronted by a robot squirrel built to look, act and even smell like the real thing. we have that going for us. >> how about a menu of a million dollars a year they are spend opening a menu for people who travel to mars. there are no plans to have people traveling to mars and yet they put in the budget a million dollars. bill: was it any different now than when you were a senator? >> the problem is that it is much more -- no, it's not different. we had a lot of wasteful programs, but i have to tell you the budget situation was not nearly as dangerous as it is today. bill: we are paying more attention to it. >> oh, and we had better. we had better get ahead of this problem and not face a situation where the interest rates we're paying on the national debt go up to 4, 5, 6%, where you're going to see us spending more on interest than we do on progra